I have been looking forward to this day for ages and, although I could not agree with everything I heard in its totality, I was not disappointed in the day.

Some on blogs (Steve, Maggi)have expressed concern at the Australian macho view of church, but I must admit that was not the view I came away with. I have checked with Sarah – it’s so novel us two going to a conference together, it’s a bit like a date! – and she did not detect the macho bit either. Maybe today’s presentation was different to last nights?

The day was provocative in many ways. The one downside of the day was that loads of information was forthcoming and I am not sure if I have had time to process it all yet. There are some points that did hit me, however, that will no doubt stay with me.

Alan Hirsch did the middle, more theoretical, part of the day. His whole presentation came form one question; that being, how did the early church, which was illegal and oppressed by the Roman Empire grow from 25 000 in 100AD, to 27 million in 300AD? Its a good question worth consideration, one which I would guess if we could crack would give us clues for how to be church in the 21st Century.

Others have spoken of liminality and communitas, but they are not points thatb hit me so much. I was excited by comments such as discipleship needing to be a core activity of the church and our Christology should determine our Missiology which in turn affects our Ecclesiology. In other words, our relationship with Christ should affect our mission and that in turn determines what church is like. Too often we reverse our missiology and ecclesiology in that statement.

These two statements got a big agreement from me. For a while I have noticed shallowness in so many in churches. I think the only way to challenge this is through discipleship. Our people do not know some f the stuff that we take for granted!

Although Alan was good I did find Mike far easier to listen to. He shared far more stories and gave practical applications to the theory we were hearing. At the start of the day Mike shared 4 foundations for a missional church:

1. Proximity – between Christians and non-Christians

2. Prescence – and asking what would Jesus do here in this situation?

3. Powerlessness – an abandonment of instituonal authority

4. Proclamation – someone, somewhere, somehow, has to proclaim Jesus.

Mke ended the day by challenging us, as individuals to life with 5 principles:

1. Holiness – a provocative holiness which is noticed

2. Prayer – for more evangelists, their blessing and by name for those not yet Christians

3. Socialise – with those who don’t know Christ

4. Pool our resources to fund the evangelists

5. Be prepared to answer questions which will come if we follow 1 – 4!

As a whole the day was very provocative and not too different from the principles of Provocative Church.

Clearly Hirsch and Frost have a difficulty with organised or institutional church. There can be a tendancy to try and replace what is already there with the ‘new’ idea. I firmly believe it needs to be a ‘both and’, and not an ‘either or’ approach. The institution, for all its faults, is hitting it in places and meeting a very big need. To lose it would be a travesty.

There does, though, need to be an understanding and trust between both. Both can co-exist as long as both realise that they are both part of the solution and neither have unrealsitic expectations of the other. I’ll elaborate on tht thought at a later date as its getting late!

And … all my aims of the day … they were met – got together with good friends and met Gordon from blog fame for the first time (thanks for coming to say hello), which was cool!

Thanks Jonny for the day – well worth the trek to the big city!

Gordon has copied a great post here. Go check it out

I am really very excited about tomorrow(Monday) as a few of us from Gillingham are going to this conference being run by Jonny and CMS.

I’ve been booked in for a while, but only just realised from the website that you can read the intro and first chapter of the book by the same name written by the guys coming over from Australia to share with us.

I’m looking forward to the chance to listen, hear stories, learn and make comment. Also hoping to see some old friends and other bloggers! Of course, the real discussion starts at the end of the day when we all travel home together on the train and chat through whether what we experience has an impact or influence on our mission in Gillingham.

There has been a bit of talk these lst few weeks about oersonal preferences in church and such like.

Some I have found useful, and to be honest some I have found incredibly frustrating annoying and selfish. In any sense, I guess in the wider scheme of things we could say ‘its not actually that important’

Graham, who is one of the people who leads worship, posted this on Friday which I share below:

Priorities

It’s not important to be happy, but to make others happy.

It’s not important to be loved, but to love and be a blessing to others.

It’s not important to enjoy, but to share.

It’s not important to have your own way, but to deny yourself.

It’s not important to find your life, but to lose it.

It’s not important to seek your own satisfaction, but to be satisfied in satisfying others.

It’s not important that God does our will, but that we do His.

It’s not important to live long, but that our life has the right content.

It’s not important what people think and say about us, but what we are before God.

It’s not important what we do, but how and why we do it.

It’s not important to have much knowledge, but to put what we know into practice. It’s not important how we appear, but how we are.

It’s not important to avoid suffering, but that the suffering achieves its aim in us.

It’s not important when we die, but whether we are ready to meet God.

By Eva von Thiele-Winckler

I started this morning at the incredibly early hour of 6am. I never even realised there was a 6am on a Saturday!

I then drove to Richmond. It’s amazing how empty the South Circular is at that time of the morning. In Richmond we met with the Exec of Kick London which, today, became our latest YFC’centre’.

They are a particularly exciting and unique centre. AS you may guess from the name, Kick are a football ministry team. Whereas other centres share their faith through lessons and mentoring, Kick share through football. Incredibly unique and exciting.

It was an early start, but exciting to see the Kick Exec sign the covenant agreement and become a YFC Centre.

I had an exciting time this week catching up with the progress of Chislehurst YFC this last week.

Things have moved pretty quickly in the town and amazingly, a member of the Exec has bought the freehold of this shop in the picture,with another mortgage, in Chislehurst High Street. What an incredible act of faith!

Currently they are using the place to raise money so that Chislehurst YFC can start to employ people to do the work that is so badly needed in the town.

In addition to the shop buying, Ian (seen looking cool on the sofa!)has also taken the leap of agreeing to work 2 days a week to set up the structure and start the development of the centre.

I find it really very exciting to be able to spend time with so many people like Ian and the lady who bought the shop (sorry, I can’t remember her name!)who not only talk about big dreams but do something about them as well. These people are taking big risks and really trusting God not to leave them in the lurch!

It’s usually true, I think, that to see your dreams become reality that you need to take a risk of some sort. These people are taking a big risk with their personal lives to honour the vision that they have from God. I know that there are going to be exciting times in Chislehurst over the next few years because the people there are taking big risks for the name of Jesus now.

If you have a spare mo – remember them in your prayers.

Gordon makes a good point in his comment to my post. People are looking for reality, and if that means being relevant as well then so be it. On the other hand, following trends and being a trendy church can have significant problems.

If I look honestly at my church we are not a collection of up to date trendy people who are in to the latest fashion, have a great knowledge of art or necessarily buy or like the latest music. There are a few around that like this and that, but as I said not loads.

To elaborate on that, there are many of us, even in close friendship groups that have very varied tastes in music and practice. An example could be that I like Gregorian Chant type music, others in my friendship circle hate it! A relaxed day for me would be to wander around The Tate, for my friends it would be something wildly different! That is just one small example of a difference in a small group.

If we take that wider, into the whole church of 300 or so people in Gillingham, the tastes are much more diverse. I do not need to do a survey to know that just personal tastes in music would vary from Mozart to Eminem. Newspaper readership would vary from The Times to The Sun (although some might think there was no difference there!). Many would watch soaps avidly, others avoid most TV like the plague.

The differences in tastes are massive. In such an environment how on earth can we ever hope to achieve a church that is relevant to everyone. St Marks in Gillingham looks to do this by having a variety of services which I think is a sound plan. With this, though, you hear the complaint from some that ‘this church needs to decide what it stands for’. Effectively I think that means ‘I want my type of preference all the time’.

Take that a step further into our community and the tastes again could be even more diverse. How on earth do we look to be relevant to the whole community? Is it even possible to do so?

This post is taking a lot longer to get around to what I thought it was hat I was going to write before I started to write! Sorry about that! It is, after all, my tendency to become irrelevant and unreal in my drivel and thoughts that I know some of you love so much about me!

If we try to be relevant to the extent that we are acting then that will have disastrous results. Gordon is right, reality is more important.

As church if we pretend we are something we are not to attract or keep people then the act will eventually fall down. If we are secret Eminem fans and pretend our style is more in the vein of Schubert then we will not be able to carry that off for very long.

We need to be real. WE need to be genuine. We need to be honest. We need to be realistic. I think that means we need to be who we are. We need to take pride in the person, with all our preferences and tastes, that God created us to be. To be real means we need to be honest and open. A kind of ‘this is who I am’ type approach.

Obviously, in an extreme form that could lead to selfishness of an unwanted degree. So, we need to be real and at the same time acknowledge that others also have the responsibility, freedom and right to be themselves as well. They can and need to be genuine and real too.

What saddens me so much in churches and groups (not just Christian) that I have been in is the attitude where someone has partly grasped this ‘you need to be real’ attitude. Partly grasped because they have fallen into the trap of thinking their reality is the one reality that everyone should follow! The this is how it is for me so it must be the same for you attitude so quickly kills off the chances of others to be their real God created selves.

Again, in an extreme form, that type of attitude leads to the arguments we have seen in the past in the church, such as women’s ordination, and to those we see now such as sexuality and who can give communion (which I know confuses many non-Anglicans. Well this anglican is confused too over all the fuss … but more about that at a later date!)

I wonder if secretly we all think we would feel more secure if everyone around us was the same. I’m wondering now if this is a bit of a control thing. Do we, as individuals, want to control those around us because it makes us feel safer? That’s a bit of a worrying question that I think I nee to consider a bit more.

So, back to where we were, we need to be real to be relevant.

In that sense I think St Marks may have a good approach with its ideas of having different services and experiences. If we agree that we are a church that stands for helping people to connect with God in a relevant way, then due to the very diverse nature of our society we need to provide an equally diverse set of experiences or opportunities for people to connect with God.

On the other hand, maybe others are right. Should we concentrate on one or two styles, and tell those that prefer those other styles to go and find somewhere else that meets their needs?

Is realness in diversity the correct way to go, or is it realness in a more focused way?

I really do not know the answer, there might not even be one. I do know, though, that the idea of telling people to go somewhere else does not sit easy with me. No, worse than that, it grates painfully.

Surely, somehow, in our real and genuine outlook we can provide a church for all.

Over the weekend some of my friends found the spelling mistake in the children’s memory verse very amusing … apparently Jesus can give eteranal life!!

I remember in a church I worked in, I was sitting with the young people. Someone gave a word for the church. She had a picture of a giant octopus which was reaching out and touching us with each of its 8 testicles! Keeping the young people quiet was impossible – I think more tears of laughter were shed that night than I care to remember. I think sides splitting came into it a bit!

Churches are great places – there is always going to be amusement because church is a collection of amusing people like you and me!!

It would be great and give a more light hearted edge to hear about the funnies you have experienced in church.

What is relevancy?

Relevancy to whom, when and where?

Who decides what is relevant and what is irrelevant?

I work for a youth organisation whose mission statement is ‘to take good news relevantly to every young person in Great Britain’.

I go to a church that is desperate to be seen as relevant to the local community.

I live in this country as a Christian where it is vital that I be seen as relevant. Certainly, no one would listen to my point of view if they believed me to be irrelevant.

Being relevant is important to me and a big desire of my heart.

‘We are not relevant’ is a statement I have heard a lot recently in different contexts. Some of those statements have had clout, but I wonder if others have really been genuine or thought out properly.

When we say we are not being relevant I wonder if we are actually saying I did not enjoy that, that was not my preferred option, that made me feel uncomfortable; or are we really looking to those outside for whom our relevancy is an issue? In other words, are we jumping on the relevancy bandwagon to try and get our own way, or are we honestly interested in being relevant to those who do not yet know Christ?

You see, I have a problem with this whole concept. If we were to really make, church for example, relevant to those outside, then would it still be relevant to those inside? Would those already there feel their needs were being met? Would those already there be prepared to make the sacrifice that might be necessary for real relevancy?

What would true relevancy look like?

A relevant church in a country where communal singing would be unheard of?

A relevant church in an environment where one person speaking without being challenged or questioned would be totally alien?

A relevant church in a world where people expect instant results in a buy now pay later world culture.

A relevant church in a world that questions the ultimate authority of one book that we claim is the word of God … because it says it is the word of God.

A relevant church in a world where a pick and mix folk type religion is adopted by many?

A relevant church in a world which looks in on the in-fighting arguments of that church with amusement and desperation?

A relevant church in a world where equal opportunities based on gender, racial and sexuality is seen as normal, while the church is viewed as having prejudice

Are we prepared for the sacrifice we might need to make to be truly relevant to those we long to reach?

Are we willing to forego our personal likes and tastes to achieve the relevancy we need to achieve?

Relevancy…. are we up for it?

I attended this event today,called Out of the Desert, with Rochester Diocese which was aimed at young people from the Church of England who had recently been ordained. The whole aim of the afternoon was to show young people how they could be involved in God’s mission now, as well as get them thinking about the future and how they might serve God using their gifts.

I was fortunate enough to be able to chat with a few young people and youth leaders whom it was clear had never even thought that they could use their dancing, acting or sporting gifts in mission for God. Almost totally, those I spoke with thought that they needed to be good at speaking, or teaching, or be a natural leader. It seemed fairly exciting to them to realise that God could actually use the stuff they enjoyed doing. So, in a sense, I guess we could say that some people came ‘out of the desert’ into an oasis of ideas of how their lives might pan out in the future.

I find it amazing to think that still some of our young people and youth leaders have such a blinkered view of what mission can be all about. It’s like there is this belief that everyone has to go to Africa or aome other place that they would surely hate! Why does it come as a surprise to people that working for God can be fun as well as hard work? I believe passionately that when people realise it can be doing stuff that we really love doing, skating, surfing, playing footie, dancing, DJ-ing etc etc etc, that more Christian young people would realise the relevancy of God to their everyday life.

We, as the church, need to do more to get this out to our young people. We need to stop giving the impression that preaching, teaching, worship leading and home group leadership are the only real ministries of value! Maybe that’s a generalisation, but I stick by the comment.

Anyway … back to the event. It was held in the crypt of Rochester Cathedral, andthere must have been about 50/60 young people there. I just love this part of the cathedral, it is very atmospheric and just right for youth events. Emma Sargent, the assistant DYO, had also set up a Labyrinth type experience in part of the crypt, which I have tried to show below.

I love the labyrinth, and if you ave a chance a grat use of time is to visit and experience the online version. To do it properly, give yourself around an hour – you will not be disappointed.